Curse

Don Zardeone · Mar 10, 2011, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Dismember
Brawling Headbutt
Club of a Thousand Bears / whirlwind attack /
Drunken Master
Conjure Frost
Armor of Mist
12 Water Magic, 12 axe mastery, 3 Energy Storage

I play W as my main char. It does everything awesomely. But I also have an ele and I want to play with my ele just like i do with my war. So since I'm mentally not very okay, I'm deciding I'll just do ele as warrior.

I'm still gathering the skills. Had the weapons since for ever but I'm looking for insights. Has anyone done this before? I want to do all of HM with this.

I will probably have xandra buffing me with strength of honor for an extra 21 damage in melee.

So that's what you'd basically expect from an elemental axe with conjure frost for +19 and SoH for +21 = +40 armor affected damage.
However, my team has a bsurge with cracked armor spreading so I don't have to worry too much about getting hit by physicals.

I'll have dual KD's, just like my axewarrior. But the 100bear club doesn't work on humans so since I'm an ele anyway with 4 pips of regen I can get away with shouting you move like a dwarf.

Full blessed armor with sup vig and vitaes (20% enchant on swap) should put me at
480base+50supvig+30vitaes+30shield+30axe = 620hp
60ALbase+10blessed+6shield+38armorofmist=114AL most of the time, 76 in cooldown, but I have a stand your ground spammer on my team so no worries.

620hp @ 114AL at first blood would make the enemy run past me to hit my minions so I can safely beat the crap out of stuff.

This should totally deal more damage than any ele spell I can throw and will allow me to winwin. Right?

Maybe 100 blades?

I don't have the skills yet. I'm gathering them as we speak.

Ideas?

FoxBat · Mar 10, 2011, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Triple chop is not useless but kinda meh so I wouldn't feel locked into it. You can bring other utility like mist form, ward vs harm, ride the lightning or thunderclap depending on the situation. Soldier's Stance is also a choice if you aren't pumping alcohol, albeit it will cost some conjure damage.

DiogoSilva · Mar 10, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

A "melee" elementalist is a good opportunity to use some of their touch-skills, I think. And Ride the lightning would be very... cool? Gotta try it someday :P

LifeInfusion · Mar 10, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

With Stand your ground paragon in your team and in physical heavy areas with no enchantment removal...:
12+1+1 Water
12 Hammer
3 air

Equip: blessed insignias, minor water, sup vigor, vitae ; icy hammer 15% enchanted of defense

60+38=98Armor , +10 blessed = 108 , +24 IAU = 132+5 from hammer=137 (hammer warrior is 100+5=105 , sword/axe warrior is 116+5=121)

1 "I am unstoppable!" [PVE] (+24 armor)
2 Frigid Armor (+38 to physical)
3 Conjure Frost (+19)
4 Crude Swing (5energy 5 recharge , +16 AOE)
5 Drunken Master [PVE]
6 Enraged Smash (5energy 5 recharge , +3 adrenaline)/Forceful Blow (4 adrenaline, +34)/Earthshaker (8 adrenaline)
7 Whirlwind (5energy,0.75 cast, 8 recharge knocks down attacking foes...24 cold damage)
8 Whirlwind attack [PVE](if you can build the 6 adrenaline , +20 AOE)/Crushing blow (+16 + deep wound ... 5 energy 10 recharge)/Pulverizing Smash (4 adrenaline deep wound)/Belly Smash (blinds knocked down foes...5energy 1 cast 10 recharge)

Optionals: Frozen Burst/Brawling Headbutt [PVE]/Blurred Vision/Light of Deldrimor [PVE]
* Armor of Frost is strictly inferior to Frigid armor @15+ water magic.
* If Ele PBAOE damage wasn't so terrible and on long recharge then you could go Earth and run Armor of Earth at a penalty of 15% movement or something and run Aftershock. But alas it's not worth it and you lose conjure.
* Fire magic has stuff like Lava font, Flame burst, Phoenix, Inferno. None of them are worth using in HM.

Other skills worth noting: Yeti Smash, crushing blow/pulverizing smash (deep wound). Single target knockdowns (hammer bash, heavy blow, Dev hammer) are not as good as Brawling headbutt. Club of a Thousand Bears will probably do more than most hammer attacks which are capped at +34 or so.

Counter Blow can't match up to Whirlwind on an ele... unless you have an IAS Counterblow takes 7 seconds. The only IAS you have is Soldier's Stance, Frenzy (lol ele), Flurry. The rest are strength.

With hammers you really can't spam SY!

I'd load up on energy stuff. You could use axe in theory, but axe's cyclone axe (+10) doesn't pump out as much + damage as crude swing (+16). Triple chop's +34 is on 10 cooldown. Swords are boring and most of the good stuff is adrenaline (gash, sun&moon with [email protected]=+38, dragonslash, standing slash). Unlike on a warrior, you're not energy limited so for 5 energy it's more like 4 cooldown energy-wise rather than 8.

some calcs:
+16+19 =+35 adjacent per crude swing on top of base damage
+20+19 =+39 adjacent per whirlwind attack on top of base damage
+16+19+100 (deep wound) = +135 Crushing Blow
+19+100(deep wound) = +119 Pulverizing Smash
+34+19= +53 Forceful Blow
base damage = 19 to 35 *1.15*1.2=26.22 to 48.3 (before armor)

@FoxBat no Mist Form/Obs Flesh, you can't do attack damage

Xenomortis · Mar 10, 2011, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I remember an old discussion on something like this; http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0417753p4.html - dated and some of the things discussed there are probably not relevant.

Triple Chop is somewhat underwhelming. The effect is nice, but the recharge sucks. Unfortunately Axe Mastery elites are all unspectacular for PvE - I suppose Cleave is semi-useful.

I would look at a Hammer - the loss of a shield bonus is small since you're only going to be hitting +8AR +inscription. More inherent KDs if that's what you're interested in without taking PvE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

A "melee" elementalist is a good opportunity to use some of their touch-skills, I think. And Ride the lightning would be very... cool? Gotta try it someday :P

Almost every time you opt to use a spell over an attack, you lose out on DPS. Unless that touch spell has an awesome effect, it's not generally worth it (and Brawling Headbutt is better than Shock, but I'm not sure I'd bother with either).

Don Zardeone · Mar 10, 2011, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Back from testing

So the goal was to make my ele be a steamroller just like my warrior and I fell I have accomplished that goal.

Instead of 1000bearclub I use you walk like a dwarf. At 10 energy I couldn't spam that on my warrior but on my ele it's an incredibly ageressive skills that can be somewhat spammed to catch runners.

I'm sticking to axe for now but will definitely take a look at hammer later on.

Damage is on par with warrior. Survivability is comparable. I'm not tanking anything and when i do get hit, I suddenly get an enchantstack on me. It looks like heroes are hardwired to immediately powerenchant an elementalist under attack o.o
My warrior never gets such explosions of blue stuff o.o

I might even say it does more damage than warrior. But math would probably defeat me.

It's very very fun to play.
I run faster than my dudes so when I approach a mob, I put on my armor enchant, my conjure, charge in (my dudes will have arrived by now) and start exploding stuff. Because the enemy slightly avoids me on first blood, I get to chase them and use you move like a dwarf to smack them down and destroy them.
If my warrior could spam that, wow. But alas, he can't.
It feels like being Skorpion from Mortal Kombat.

GET OVER HERE and then you proceed to chop them to bits.
Lack of stonefist turns the KDs into mere interrupts but it still is fun as hell.

hm

I shall call it the Meele

Mashiyu · Mar 10, 2011, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I'm looking forward to say "Hell, eles with axes deal better damage than SF/SH/whatever!" in the next ele dmg discussion xD

Btw: To lengthen the KD duration, one of your (rit) heros could take Earthbind - it's like Stonefist, but more broken^^

El Sabio · Mar 11, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

hey whats your exact build now? sounds pretty cool tbh

do you drink for ias? or is 15% enough to attack?

Don Zardeone · Mar 11, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Dismember
Brawling Headbutt
"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
Drunken Master
Conjure Frost
Armor of Mist
12+1+1 Water Magic, 12 Axe Mastery, 3+1 Energy Storage

I don't drink because it isn't my main and I don't have much alcohol left. But I would if I could. The build fits quite well for a drunkard

I would only try it if I had a solid hero team to back it up. It's still no tank

edit: thinking of building an entire hero team around this. Earthbind does indeed look sexy

Im in SPAMADAN · Mar 11, 2011, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Conjure Frost

I will probably have xandra buffing me with strength of honor for an extra 21 damage in melee.

That's the first major flaw, in order for conjure frost to take affect, you must have a weapon that DEALS COLD DAMAGE. However, SoH only gives the damage bonus with PHYSICAL MELEE DAMAGE. You see the problem.

Secondly, if your going to run HAMMER on an ele, you might as well stick to hammer on war because ele does not have the rune that allows for increased KD duration.

Thirdly, no matter how much you buff the ele. It is still theory wars, meaning there is no absolute armor that you know you will have and if you get stripped of ur enchantment buff, you will lose lots of damage/ armor. So you might as well stick to your PvE war since he has built in Strength attribute which gives armor penetration per attack and will not lose dmg if stripped.

Don't get me wrong, ele will work and may include a fun factor, however warrior playing warrior will always be more affective than ele playing warrior.

Xenomortis · Mar 11, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Im in SPAMADAN

That's the first major flaw, in order for conjure frost to take affect, you must have a weapon that DEALS COLD DAMAGE. However, SoH only gives the damage bonus with PHYSICAL MELEE DAMAGE. You see the problem.

False.
Strength of Honor will boost any melee attack. Damage type is irrelevant.
Order of Pain and Order of the Vampire require physical attacks, but can be ranged.

Don Zardeone · Mar 11, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Im in SPAMADAN

That's the first major flaw, in order for conjure frost to take affect, you must have a weapon that DEALS COLD DAMAGE. However, SoH only gives the damage bonus with PHYSICAL MELEE DAMAGE. You see the problem.

Secondly, if your going to run HAMMER on an ele, you might as well stick to hammer on war because ele does not have the rune that allows for increased KD duration.

Thirdly, no matter how much you buff the ele. It is still theory wars, meaning there is no absolute armor that you know you will have and if you get stripped of ur enchantment buff, you will lose lots of damage/ armor. So you might as well stick to your PvE war since he has built in Strength attribute which gives armor penetration per attack and will not lose dmg if stripped.

Don't get me wrong, ele will work and may include a fun factor, however warrior playing warrior will always be more affective than ele playing warrior.

Yeah I don't disagree on any of those points except the first, which I'm going to go and test in isle of the nameless right now.

But I wanted to play ele like I play my war because playing ele like an ele only worked 4 years ago. =/

Edit:
tested, I will post critical hit damage on a 60AL target:

water magic 16, axe 12, the axe is customised 14^50

55 no buffs
76 SoH (+21)
76 conjure frost (+21)
97 SoH + conjure frost (+21+21)

SoH stacks with conjure!!!

You may be be confusing it with judge's insight which turns damage into holy damage and gives 20% ap. I haven't tried that yet and it may mes sup the conjure requirement unless it is applied after conjure, dunno

But SoH works!!

AndrewSX · Apr 01, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Wow, came across this thread and tried the build just for lulz......

except i've vanquished half eotn with it.

Just used:
12 Axe
11+1 Water
6+1+1 ES

Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Whirlwind Attack(3rd AoE attack, adren based)
Furios Axe/Swift Chop(any random meele attack will do, better energy based anyway)
IAU!(+24 AR+ anti KD)
Drunken Master(IAS+IMS, haven't drunk tbh)
Conjure Frost
Armor of Frost(cuz is maintenable :P)

Worked like a charm in charr lands(+90% adren from title) and norn(+healt). Not tried in coast yet.
Just had a Sos and a ER put SoH and Life bond on me, followed by splinter on demand.

Stuff explodes when properly balled. Literally. I'm not happy saying this, but in regular PvE HM (no tank and such) i've seen better/more numbers using this rather than any ele build. Will try the hammer one if i'll find one that fit it.

Now a question for you: what axe grip is better take, considering that you can't use the zealous mod(slot taken by icy mod)? Ench or defence/hp?

P.S: for more defence, i've added a para too. Blazin finale+anthems+they're on fire+SYG. Not bad.

P.P.S: Fun Factor is huge.

Urcscumug · Apr 06, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

This is something I definitely need to try once I get my Ele ascended.

For axe grip, I usually prefer +5 armor over +30 HP. Dunno about +ench, do you feel the need for extra enchantment duration?

PS: As long as you stick to axe, if you have some spare points put them into Tactics and try to find a shield. It would mean an extra 8-11 AL (I think 11 is the best you can get for rank 3 Tactics). If you add in that +5 from the axe grip, +15 AL over the entire body is not bad...

Even if you don't have spare points, at least find a shield, any shield with 8 AL or more. Any bit of extra armor can help and it's a waste of the offhand to keep it empty.

cataphract · Apr 06, 2011, 05:31 PM // 17:31

No shield makes it more challenging. Besides, one can always mod an ele offhand with a +30 health core and a "hail to the king" inscription.

Urcscumug · Apr 07, 2011, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

No shield makes it more challenging. Besides, one can always mod an ele offhand with a +30 health core and a "hail to the king" inscription.

It's an ele trying to play a warrior, starts from 60 AL instead of 100 off the bat, how much more challenging do you want to make it?

As for +HP vs +AL mods, I've done the math, played the game, for me +AL wins hands down. But to each his own, I just made the suggestion.

AndrewSX · Apr 07, 2011, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Well, if using axe, is obvious that i'll pick a shield, even @ 0 spec.
The only reason for drop it would be using hammer, cause focus benefits are quite useless if playing this build.

And Blessed insignas will add a nice +10 AR anyway, so we should count 70 AR (if full body) plus all enchs(armor of "---", IAU!, Life bond, SYG) and benefits (like Anthems+Blazing finale to fuel They're on fire!-30ish% dmg reduction). It's a ideal count, but still work fine.

cataphract · Apr 07, 2011, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

It's an ele trying to play a warrior, starts from 60 AL instead of 100 off the bat, how much more challenging do you want to make it?

After almost 6 years of playing - I need more challenges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

As for +HP vs +AL mods, I've done the math, played the game, for me +AL wins hands down. But to each his own, I just made the suggestion.

You could have tried reading my post a bit more carefully too. As I was proposing a no shield variant I gave a suggestion on how to mod the offhand. Since recharge/casting mods will not be needed in this build, the only way to get more protection from the offhand is using a focus core with +30 health and an inscription with +5 armor.

Norian · Apr 07, 2011, 02:38 PM // 14:38

I think I might try this...might be good to use this for when I'm playing with my 7 heros...

Questions: What gear would be good to use? Weapon, runes, insignias, etc...

Thanks in advance...

Urcscumug · Apr 07, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

@cataphract: Bah, who knows all the inscriptions by name? ^^

@Norian: I think they've been mentioned. Blessed insignia are always good for an ele because they usually run 1+ enchantments to help reduce spell costs. For runes you'd probably go for augmenting ele attributes, I don't think the "generic" runes are particulary outstanding. For weapons read above.